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Post by substratumsounds on Oct 9, 2006 15:40:38 GMT -5
Consider this a genereal drunken rant, but with a real point to it!
Is anybody that's reading this getting any paper, for doing what we love?
If so how?
If not why?
And what can you do about changing your current posistion and really start getting up (and over)?
I've been playing this game for along time and to me it's like playing monopoly when all the good props are takin and your stuck with like baltic ave or something.
You just keep going around the board sure you get $5 or $10 here and there $200 for passin go, but meanwhile i(it seems!) everybody else is rackin up!
I know for a fact I got some fire and the skillz to continue to produce fire over and over again! I'm sick of not being able to get passed the entry level and I'm really interested to see where ya'll are at!
"The rant concludes while the drinking continues!"
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Truthmusik
Full Member
...that's right.
Posts: 121
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Post by Truthmusik on Oct 9, 2006 20:45:06 GMT -5
Man, I've sold a few beats for cheap to a local dude & a few others from the internet...and to be honest, I'm a little disappointed that I can't get no dough for my time. People want the most perfect beat in the world but can't pay for it! Like I'm trying to just give my work to you to "keep it real"...Man, I'm f**kin Broke!
Still grindin though.
-Truth
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Post by j1 on Oct 12, 2006 9:09:57 GMT -5
i've never sold anything, but i've never tried to.
it's probably really hard for a solo beatmaker to sell stuff consistently. probably the best thing to do is find some rappers who like your sound to make an album with. or maybe work on a big instrumental project with other beatmakers. easier said than done though..there doesn't seem to be many rappers around and finding beatmakers to collaborate with can be hard too.
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Post by Desertease on Oct 21, 2006 1:50:10 GMT -5
Man i can't sell beats to save my life....so i popped the bottle and started sippin it till i passed out...then woke up and realized i still ain't sell nuttin so i went and bought more!!!.....now i'm broke bought me the music powers book hopefully that will help some
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Post by substratumsounds on Oct 23, 2006 12:23:43 GMT -5
Is becoming an "alkaholic" pothead in the book. If so I'm on my way then!
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pezza
New Member
Posts: 19
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Post by pezza on Nov 16, 2006 7:33:30 GMT -5
I've heard people say it ain't the gear it's the producer but it seems to me that the hottest producers have some pretty hot gear at their fingertips. I don't make any money from beats but my attitude has changed a lot since I started getting into electronic music a couple of years ago. I've dropped all the fantasy bullshit and got more real about how good I actually am and the level of commitment that is required to be consistently good. I'm starting to ramble again and please tell me to shut up if I'm being boring. I just feel that there is possibly a lot of disillusionment amongst up and coming producers at how hard it actually is to get a break and what it takes to get that break. It's the same with bands, there's just so freakin many and what is it that sets one apart from another? It seems that in a lot of ways this whole producer phenomenon that has popped up in the last few years is somehow disconnected from the music making process. I mean you don't have to look back that far and the beatmaker was an integral part of a group or collective. It's like everything is becoming more and more subdivided and I think there's a danger because every producer has to have all the gear and be able to do everything so nobody ends up collaborating anymore...pause for breath...like in a band you have jamming but is there any equivalent for producers? There needs to be a flow to the process and the best stuff can come about not when you're alone in your bedroom but when you bounce off other peoples ideas. So once again no I don't make any money but I'll never stop trying to figure out why I don't and maybe in the process I'll come out with a heater that will get the ball rolling, or maybe this is just another illusion that I need to ban from my mind and just make sure I keep having fun. ;D
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Post by j1 on Nov 16, 2006 12:05:22 GMT -5
i agree, well put
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Post by The Future on Dec 7, 2006 22:55:09 GMT -5
Yea Very Well Put
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Post by Desertease on Dec 8, 2006 0:35:22 GMT -5
good point, but you must also keep in mind of all the thousands of little rich kids there are out there that the parents buy the mpc's and pretty much full home studios for them and for what purpose? Most of these people have little or no talent at all it's just another toy that they can show off to their friends. The other day i seen a video on youtube where a guy lit a nekoLX on fire then beat it with a baseball bat till it was destroyed, earlier today i seen a diff. video where a guy had a fantomx8 and made a beat and it was absolutely one of the worst beats i ever heard in my life. Then there is my category all i have is a 20.00 casio board and flstudio and i'm makin the best heat i can cuz i just can't afford the gear. It will take most of us months to be able to save up and purchase decent gear and most of us that can't afford the ish have talent and can actually do things with it instead of just saying that we have it and never use it... ya'll feel me?
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Post by j1 on Dec 8, 2006 8:44:35 GMT -5
to me, all that high priced hardware's overrated though. i think unless you're actually making a living on your music all that stuff's not necessary.
and it's possible, if you're so inclined, to get lots of great software and samples for free
i think it's kind of good for creativity to work with limitations anyway. i started out on fruity loops 2 with nothing but the samples that came with it, and some of the most creative stuff i did was back then (even though it sounded like crap)
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Post by Desertease on Dec 9, 2006 1:02:32 GMT -5
thats the whole point right there. what you just said is what i've been tryin to say. even though the equipment may be over rated it still has the dopest professional quality sounds that will get your creativity heard, take that beat from fl2 and redo it the same exact way on a fantom's soundboard and there is the difference right there. it may be over rated but it is deffinately needed to play ball in the majors
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Post by j1 on Dec 9, 2006 7:39:23 GMT -5
ok, i'll give you that i guess
but to me the real issue is exposure, not equipment.
plenty of underground acts have made bad to ok quality records that have gotten them attention. but they have to work their asses off to promote it.
and while most people have to work for publicity, others get it handed to them
an example
i recently saw on tv, some nascar driver started a record company for some of his friends because they were complaining about how hard it is to get their music out there..so they go from being some unknown garage bands to being mentioned on tv just because they know a guy with money and influence who's willing to help em out
in the music business it's not always about good music or musical talent, it's often either about who you know, or constant, shameless self promotion (which relates to what pezza said about how tough the music bisuness is)
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Post by Desertease on Dec 9, 2006 16:43:02 GMT -5
very true a lot of this business is about who you know, and if your in my shoes then you know nobody lol. so the only thing i can do is upgrade my equipment make some heat and send it out for demo's cuz if it's good enough i don't think they will pass on you cuz you don't know nobody, at least for my sake i hope they won't pass on me cuz i don't know anyone. the reason I make beats is cuz it's the passion of it and it's a way for me to express myself and i'm going to purchase a mpc1000 unless i'm told otherwise and a fantomx6 so the quality of my beats sound better for me, ya dig?
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Post by j1 on Dec 9, 2006 20:27:05 GMT -5
yeah, i understand you gotta do what you can
as long as you got that, you got something
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Post by forbeatssake on Dec 10, 2006 14:22:09 GMT -5
its 5% music and 95% salesmanship, everyone's has beats but few have any sales skills.
business is business and the physical product itself is a small portion.
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Post by Desertease on Dec 11, 2006 0:30:15 GMT -5
it's more than 5% music my man, the company that is buying it knows that the only way they make money is if other people wanna buy it, if it's a good product it will sell, if it's a bad product then your salesman scheme would come into play.
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chi
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by chi on Dec 23, 2006 2:03:09 GMT -5
Im sorry, i know this thread is old, i just had to add in, plus i have nuthing else to do, lol.
Because no one buys beatz from you, or anyone else for that matter, most likely is because either their broke, they re-use instrumentals, or they can get a free beat simply by going on soundclick. Theres tons of people that make beats, so u gotta put yourself over that bar, what separates u from other producers. its not about the equipment, some people are signed and all they use is computer progrrams.
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chi
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by chi on Dec 23, 2006 2:06:40 GMT -5
Im sorry, i know this thread is old, i just had to add in, plus i have nuthing else to do, lol.
Because no one buys beatz from you, or anyone else for that matter, most likely is because either their broke, they re-use instrumentals, or they can get a free beat simply by going on soundclick. Theres tons of people that make beats, so u gotta put yourself over that bar, what separates u from other producers. its not about the equipment, some people are signed and all they use is computer programs.
As far as the money goes, what I do is make beats for people online, then make a mixtape, and hustle CD`s. Thats how i bring my income in, and if people want beats from "that guy" that produced "that track" then maybe you could charge more for the beat. The more CD`s you sell, the more rappers/customers you might bring.
Remember though, this should never be about the money. ITs about the music, of course I know where your coming from though, so all I can say is good. I wish you the best with gettin that dough.
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Post by taurus on Jan 30, 2007 19:45:31 GMT -5
It's just something about this old thread... I kept passing it by, but I had to drop a few lines. Reading through all the posts, I saw some of the same sentiments I have had. Thing is, I'm not really a "beat maker". My angle is more music composition. If you ever vist my site, you'll see what I mean. At this point, I can't really compete in the beat-making/production arena. YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOO GOOD! Seriously, though. I'm amazed at the level of skill I'm hearing here and I'm thinking, "These cats MUST be gettin' paid!" Fact is, the best artists ever, you'll probably never hear. Similarly, the best beat makers and producers have to almost give their stuff away just to get heard. That's sad indeed. I'm an artist first. I also know that I need to finance my ability to keep making my art. At some point, I decided to put on the marketing/salesman hat. It was a bit tough at first because my temperment is geared toward digging inside and creating - not being extroverted and "selling" to people. Regardless of the type person I am, I have to grind and hustle just like everyone else in the biz. Am I getting paid? Yes. I learned how to market myself without "selling" myself. I built my website from the ground up thinking of how to get people to listen to and enjoy and share my art. Then I dropped the idea of payment and took a huge leap and give my music away for free. You know what? As soon as I did that, I started getting strangers BUYING my music! It's odd, but it works. In short, I learned that I have to PURSUE PEOPLE and not money in order to be truly successful. With good people relationships, I can always get paid for the art I make. Because I built relationships, people come to me and donate hundreds of dollars just so I can keep doing what I do. My "Internet Friends" (as my wife calls 'em) buy beats and CDs and mp3s - whatever I'm offering. They do it because I pursued relationships with them and they just happen to like what I create. Don't give up. You define your own terms of success. If you're a "underground" hustler like me, keep finding angles and keep grinding. Don't be afraid to take risks. Network with the right folks and build relationships. And remember to PURSUE PEOPLE, not money. I wish you all success - sincerely. I don't know any of you cats, but I love what you do. Your tracks are "SUPERNOVA" as far as I'm concerned. I just appreciate the art. ITNOJ, Taurus taurusbeats.com/www.rocmp3.com/TaurusBeats |
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Post by great1 on Jan 31, 2007 0:48:28 GMT -5
This may be an old trend......but I just had to respond to this one.
I've been producing for about 20 years and I know what the problem is. Why aren't we making any money or little money? Its because of the software programs. Back in the 80's early 90's a MPC60 cost about $4,000 which was big money when min. wage was $3.35 know one could afford one. But if you could you could charge $100-$1000 which was big money in the 80's. Besides that you had to pay for the damn thing. Fast forward to today everyone has a bootleg copy of Reasons and at about $399 well anyone from 10 years old to 80 can afford it. See back in the 80's you couldn't just get a piece of equipment play with it for a couple of days and then say I don't like it time to move on to something else. You still had to pay for that shyt. So you were forced to make beats.
Today, with software everyone's making beats there're people who are just giving away beats, which has watered down the Producing Game of Hip Hop.
Same thing with Protools Systems they use to avg. $40,000 for a system and now you can buy a M-box for $499. Now every household has Protools and it driving major recording studios out of Business. Why should I pay a major studio $150/hr for 4 hrs when I can buy and M-Box.
Basically,cheap software means too may Producers = Know money made.
Rapper just want shyt for FREE because they know you using a cheap program. So they feel like why you charging me all this money. (You know you bootlegging the software)
There goes you value as a producer in The Music Game/ Hip Hip Game.
Now ask yourself this question. Who would you take serious? A person driving a Benz or a Honda? Telling you they can make you some money....
I think if the price of any production Software went up in price you would be able to filter out the people who are not serious about Music Production and who can't afford it. That would make the value of your track go up because not to may people would be willing to pay $1500 for software.
Producing for me today is like a hobby. Most of the fun is gone from it but I love her. (Hip Hop) Music production is not like it use to be.
What else am I doing besides music these days. Well, I got a JOB. Making more money then just producing. It's steady income coming in every month and it ain't that bad.
Another thing I doing about Music is not listening to the RADIO. There not playing anything to help the youths of today. Back then, it was about AIDS awareness (put ya jimi on) , having pride in your culture, having fun, dressin', breakin', djing battles..... and gettin loaded without hurting anyone. Now its stupid shyt on the Radio!!
Peace,
Great1
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Post by taurus on Jan 31, 2007 10:56:00 GMT -5
great1 has good points. It's economics. The drivers are the producers of the software programs who figured how to make more money by introducing cheaper product. The result is a flooded market. I agree that if the "drivers" raised the prices on the tools, it would weed out those not serious about music production. However, that's not happening in this capitalist society. Bootlegging/Pirating further saturates the game, indeed. Thing is, none of that is really stopping any of us from getting paid. It may make it a lot more difficult - but it doesn't stop us. For one, we could use the same principles the big companies use. We may not like it, but lowering prices is a principle that works. Free stuff is a principle that works. Don't forget, the Internet was founded on the idea of free stuff! When you are trying to make money, you don't want to hear anyone saying free when it comes to what you make. But again, principles work. On the Hip-Hop matter, I'm there with great1. I don't listen to the radio for the same reason great1 mentioned. ITNOJ, Taurus taurusbeats.com/www.rocmp3.com/TaurusBeats |
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Post by substratumsounds on Jan 31, 2007 15:50:34 GMT -5
Wow my lil' drunken rant got all big and shit!!!!
Man so many points and comments, but I'll try to keep it brief.
I'm with Great 1 for the most part. I'm of the original beat production school as well. I started as a DJ @ 13 in 86'!! I couldn't afford anything but a few records, I was handed down my first pair of crappy wheels for $35 from my DJ mentor. I soon learned that I wanted to do was make beats and have struggled to gain money for equipment ever since.
I've never owned an MPC an SP, or anything else cool for that matter. I did overdub beats with a Casio SK-1 and 2 tape decks nah mein!! The fattest shit I ever got was a used tascam 8 track, an Akai S20 sampler and a Yamaha QS6 with a separate MIDI sequencer in like 95'.
The Point is in like 98' I got introduced to digital recording and beat making on PC's and it changed everything. I started with a cheap PC knockoff of Pro tools, and sold everything except my keyboard to by a decent PC.
Now I use Reason, Recycle and Pro tools with a Generic 88 key controller ($129 on sale). Now I'm a Producer! Any sound I can think of I can create, I'm only limited by the amount of work I want to put in.
You can't hate on the affordability of tools! Your right that "back in the day" having the right stuff automatically made you the man, I know!!!
But that doesn't help you to grow!
I know cats that have mastered the MPC but without a computer and some software help, they can't touch the kind of sample magic I possess. All of the years we've put into the art of production and creating our laboratories can only make us better, but..
It's bigger than that, it's almost full circle!
Think about it,all this technology and beats like "Whisper Song" and "I got my vans on" Are killin it!!! Just like in the beginning all that Disco production and Rah rah and along comes Hip Hop!!!! One breakbeat or 808 over and over. Only the quality of the rhymes on top have changed (for better or for worse).
Over all it's the DJ(radio) that truly controls the masses, always has been!!! If there is a place fore blame "There it is"!
"Let it marinate! Iz got drinkin to do,and a beat to make!"- Substratum
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Post by silentnoiz on Feb 2, 2007 19:19:46 GMT -5
This thread is an eternal disscussion on every beatmaker forum. So many good points and valid arguments, but, in the end, the facts remain the same: If you want to make money off your beats, then you want to be a business man. Business and artistry are usually 2 seperate entities. Artistry provides a good product. Good business lets people know about that product and motivates them to spend money on it. Yes, that beat you love so much is a product, a product to be sold. There's plenty money to be made if you stop watching the MTV and BET bling/whips/24's/big booty bull ish and think realisticly like a small business. People won't buy something if they don't know it's able to be bought, dig me? So what do you do to PR yourself? Soundclick? MySpace? Everybody and their one legged auntie is doing that. So the business side of you wakes up and figures out what unique about your product and thinks of new ways to put that in front of potential buyers. You gotta hustle: How many local MC battles do you go to? How many local DJs are you cool with? What local studios do you hang around to get to know the people who actually spend money on beats? What's up with your politic game? Can you communicate? Win people over? Get street n!ggas and corporate types to like you? How many business cards have you handed out in the last week? Do you have your own website? www.onlymybeatsandnobodyelses.com?Hip-hop has saturated the media. Have you looked into liscensing your beats for use in media projects (movies, tv, video games)? Have you aligned yourself with an artist, recorded your own project and pushed it independantly? If your craft is up to par and you push it like this on a consistent basis like your next meal depended on it, you'll eat. If you post your beats on somebodys site, sit back and wait for Luda to call you...it ain't gon' happen. The game is saturated. If you deserve some of the cake...get up and take some. Keep bangin' ya'll... |
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Post by Desertease on Feb 12, 2007 1:38:35 GMT -5
Been a while since i read this post and outta all the replies i only dis-agree wit 1 comment. The fact that people wanna raise the price of the software so that the non serious people will walk away? what about the other people like me that work a steady job and pay all the bills live alone and have no extra cash to be spending on outrageous prices?
doing that basically puts this incentive into play."you can only be a successfull producer if you are rich enough to buy the equipment. If you don't have the money the game is not for you"
sorry but that mentality is all i can get from that comment and thats whack
just my 2cents (no hating intentioned)
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Post by j1 on Feb 12, 2007 22:00:21 GMT -5
yeah, i would have to agree raising the price of software to weed out those who can't afford it is a rediculous notion.
there's enough elitism in the music world as it is.
anyway, that wouldn't guarantee less bad music, just more software piracy.
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